misterious duplicate message-id

[Gabriele Bulfon]

Hello,
as a follow up to my "finding by message id" message, I found the reason why
that message was silently discarded: for 3 times that Outlook user could send
an email with the exact same message-id generated by Outlook!
How is it possible?!
Gabriele.
Gabriele Bulfon - Sonicle S.r.l.
Tel [phone] Int. 30 - Fax [phone]
Via Felice Cavallotti 16 - 20089, Rozzano - Milano - ITALY
http://www.sonicle.com

[Sebastian Hagedorn]

Post by Gabriele Bulfon
as a follow up to my "finding by message id" message, I found the reason
why that message was silently discarded: for 3 times that Outlook user
could send an email with the exact same message-id generated by Outlook!
How is it possible?!

That's a known Outlook bug. I don't recall the precise circumstances, but
I've seen that again and again.

[Adam Tauno Williams]

Post by Sebastian Hagedorn

Post by Gabriele Bulfon
as a follow up to my "finding by message id" message, I found the reason
why that message was silently discarded: for 3 times that Outlook user
could send an email with the exact same message-id generated by Outlook!
How is it possible?!

That's a known Outlook bug. I don't recall the precise circumstances, but
I've seen that again and again.

If you do a re-send in Outlook it seems to resend the *exact* message,
including Message-ID. The "fix" for this is to use M$-Exchange 2000 SP1
or later; their MTA (on the server) rewrites the Message-ID of the
submitted message to a unique value.

Someone told me there is an issue with re-using Message-IDs in the DSN
functionality too, but I've never seen that one.

[Gabriele Bulfon]

I supposed it was a known bug....but it seems to be unknown to google!
I looked for "outlook duplicate message-id" in various forms....no result!
Gabriele Bulfon - Sonicle S.r.l.
Tel [phone] Int. 30 - Fax [phone]
Via Felice Cavallotti 16 - 20089, Rozzano - Milano - ITALY
http://www.sonicle.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da: Sebastian Hagedorn <***@uni-koeln.de>
A: Gabriele Bulfon <***@sonicle.com>
Cc: info-***@lists.andrew.cmu.edu
Data: 7 maggio 2009 15.45.24 CEST
Oggetto: Re: misterious duplicate message-id

Post by Gabriele Bulfon
as a follow up to my "finding by message id" message, I found the reason
why that message was silently discarded: for 3 times that Outlook user
could send an email with the exact same message-id generated by Outlook!
How is it possible?!

That's a known Outlook bug. I don't recall the precise circumstances, but
I've seen that again and again.
--
.:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Gebäude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
.:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:.
.:.Universität zu Köln / Cologne University - ? [phone].:.
.:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.

[Sebastian Hagedorn]

Post by Gabriele Bulfon
I supposed it was a known bug....but it seems to be unknown to google!
I looked for "outlook duplicate message-id" in various forms....no result!

Not so here ... e.g.:

<http://www.mail-archive.com/info-***@lists.andrew.cmu.edu/msg36497.html>
<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/289593>

[Gabriele Bulfon]

...the "fix" is to use Exchange?!?!?!?!?!?! My users use Cyrus+Postfix+Solaris10!!!!
Should I convert all my installations to Exchange?????
...there must be another solution, come on....
Gabriele Bulfon - Sonicle S.r.l.
Tel [phone] Int. 30 - Fax [phone]
Via Felice Cavallotti 16 - 20089, Rozzano - Milano - ITALY
http://www.sonicle.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da: Adam Tauno Williams <***@whitemice.org>
A: info-***@lists.andrew.cmu.edu
Data: 7 maggio 2009 16.19.46 CEST
Oggetto: Re: misterious duplicate message-id

Post by Sebastian Hagedorn

Post by Gabriele Bulfon
as a follow up to my "finding by message id" message, I found the reason
why that message was silently discarded: for 3 times that Outlook user
could send an email with the exact same message-id generated by Outlook!
How is it possible?!

That's a known Outlook bug. I don't recall the precise circumstances, but
I've seen that again and again.

If you do a re-send in Outlook it seems to resend the *exact* message,
including Message-ID. The "fix" for this is to use M$-Exchange 2000 SP1
or later; their MTA (on the server) rewrites the Message-ID of the
submitted message to a unique value.
Someone told me there is an issue with re-using Message-IDs in the DSN
functionality too, but I've never seen that one.
--
OpenGroupware developer: ***@whitemice.org
<http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
<http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>
----
Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/
Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki
List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html

[Joseph Brennan]

Post by Gabriele Bulfon
...the "fix" is to use Exchange?!?!?!?!?!?! My users use
Cyrus+Postfix+Solaris10!!!!
Should I convert all my installations to Exchange?????
...there must be another solution, come on....

Their business model is to make Outlook _almost_ work right with SMTP
and POP/IMAP, but have lots of subtle problems that go away when you
convert people to their Exchange product. I have to say that this is
one of the most blatant examples, where they actually tell you that
the fix for Outlook's problem is to use Exchange.

Or you can believe it's incompetence, but I don't, because Microsoft
could afford to hire expert engineers and make it work right if they
wanted to.

Joseph Brennan
Lead Email Systems Engineer
Columbia University Information Technology

[Adam Tauno Williams]

Post by Joseph Brennan
Or you can believe it's incompetence, but I don't, because Microsoft
could afford to hire expert engineers and make it work right if they
wanted to.

"Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence." Or
in this case possibly indifference. But from indifference to conspiracy
is a not a single step. There is no cause to invoke conspiracy here;
at any software house the list of bugs and feature requests soon becomes
immense and things very often get solved in a non-optimal manner.
That's just human [and you don't make money by doing everything you can
afford to do, the making money part comes in by doing somewhat *less*
than you can afford to do; that's just good business and what *everyone*
does].

And the constant conspiracy charges diminishes the credibility of the
community.

[Gabriele Bulfon]

Thx a lot :)
You mean I should configure cyrus to allow for duplicate ids?
Gabriele Bulfon - Sonicle S.r.l.
Tel [phone] Int. 30 - Fax [phone]
Via Felice Cavallotti 16 - 20089, Rozzano - Milano - ITALY
http://www.sonicle.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da: Sebastian Hagedorn <***@uni-koeln.de>
A: Gabriele Bulfon <***@sonicle.com>
Cc: info-***@lists.andrew.cmu.edu
Data: 7 maggio 2009 16.23.57 CEST
Oggetto: Re: misterious duplicate message-id

Post by Gabriele Bulfon
I supposed it was a known bug....but it seems to be unknown to google!
I looked for "outlook duplicate message-id" in various forms....no result!

Not so here ... e.g.:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/info-***@lists.andrew.cmu.edu/msg36497.html>
<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/289593>
--
.:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Gebäude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
.:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:.
.:.Universität zu Köln / Cologne University - ? [phone].:.
.:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.

[Andrew Morgan]

Post by Gabriele Bulfon
Thx a lot :)
You mean I should configure cyrus to allow for duplicate ids?

Sure, just set the following in imapd.conf:

duplicatesuppression: 0

Who cares if you deliver the same message multiple times? So far I've
never seen it happen here.

Andy